Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT/SPACEDIG/V16_3/V16NO315.TXT

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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 05:16:07
From: Space Digest maintainer <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Subject: Space Digest V16 #315
To: Space Digest Readers
Precedence: bulk


Space Digest                Mon, 15 Mar 93       Volume 16 : Issue 315

Today's Topics:
                   aA scite for orbital elements?
       Auto-cancel would be legit with a distribution (2 msgs)
                  Barycenter (?) of Pluto/Charon ??
                             Beyond 1000!
                   Cancel wars and academic freedom
                          Magellan Venus Map
                          mystery satellite?
                            NASA SELECT TV
                               Planet X
                       The courage of anonymity
    Threat of mass cancellings was Re: Anonymity is NOT the issue

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 15 Mar 1993 05:09:36 GMT
From: George William Herbert <[e-mail]>
Subject: aA scite for orbital elements?
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>        Can anyone here suggest a site that would be interested in
>maintaining an ftp-able archive of artificial satellite orbital
>elements? The amateur community has accumulated probably a few tens of
>megabytes of elements over the past several years, mostly through the
>heroic efforts of a few individuals. The elements are currently
>maintained on PCs and workstations where they are not particularly
>accessible and are subject to local disasters.

    International Space University is trying to set up a FTP
site for space related information.  I'm one of the two volounteers
helping the paid system administrator, and if the Sun Sparcstation
that's due to arrive sometime soon goes through I think that it
would be a good place to put things like that.

    Contact me in email if you have suggestions for thigns
to go in a ftp site like this at:
    [e-mail]

-george

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 02:24:57 GMT
From: "Richard E. Depew" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Auto-cancel would be legit with a distribution
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,comp.org.eff.talk,sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Brad Templeton) writes:
>One comment I will add.  The use of the auto canceller would be legit
>if every article posted included a line like:
>
>Distribution: autocancel-anon
>
>People could then be welcome to join that distribution and get a feed
>of it.

    Thanks, Brad.  That is a *wonderful* idea.  I wish I had thought
of it.  How about
Distribution: anon-cancel
as a shorter version?  The less typing the better!

     I'll have to get neoucom.edu to change their distributions.
neoucom.edu is of the "strict" school of distributions - if it isn't
listed, it doesn't pass.

     Actually, it is probably better that I *didn't* think of it.  If
*I* had suggested it, there would be massive opposition.  :-)

     Time to cobble up Edition 4 of ARMM in case any group ever votes to
use it.

     Don't take that as an endorsement of cancellations.  I am a
humble servant of the net.  I have learned my lesson. I'll let the
net-lawers in news.groups run interference.

     Meanwhile, I have another crusade to work on... confirming the
identity of that coward, an8785.

Best regards,
Dick
--
Richard E. Depew, Munroe Falls, OH               [e-mail]
"Leap years are a pain; the earth should be stabilised." - Geoff Collyer
                                         and Mark Moraes in getabsdate.3

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 05:13:57 GMT
From: Brad Templeton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Auto-cancel would be legit with a distribution
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,comp.org.eff.talk,sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard E. Depew) writes:
>    Thanks, Brad.  That is a *wonderful* idea.  I wish I had thought
>of it.  How about

Do not thank me for I did not describe the idea for your benefit.  I think
doing this is an adversarial approach unlikely to generate a long-term
solution.   I doubt that many would ask to get the distribution, and I
warn you that the distribution bug will cause you to get some nasty
messages, but strictly you will not be at fault for other people who
put "all" in their distribution list.

Think globally, but filter your news locally, not for everybody else.
--
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 05:41:25 GMT
From: Tom Nugent <[e-mail]>
Subject: Barycenter (?) of Pluto/Charon ??
Newsgroups: sci.space

During the recent discussion of Pluto and Charon, someone mentioned that
the barycenter (I think) may lay outside the surface of Pluto.  The name
doesn't quite ring a bell, however I take it to mean the center of mass of
the system.  For Earth/Luna, it lies inside Earth, but of course rotates
about the center.  If I have a clue as to how things work (not necessarily
a good assumption) the tides follow Luna because of its gravitational
influence (obviously), but it could also be looked at in terms of the
center of mass of the system.  Being outside the center of the Earth,
the tides would supposedly be higher approximately above the point where
the center of mass of the system and the center of mass of the two
independent bodies form a line, if you can follow that description.

That being said, then if barycenter (or whatever the term was) does
mean center of mass (or should I say center of gravity?? They're not
_always_ the same, are they), then if it lies outside the surface of Pluto,
then would the atmosphere (tenuous as it is) of Pluto actually extend much
higher above one point on Pluto than on the opposite side, perhaps even
enveloping Charon if that moon is close enough????

I guess Bob Forward's 'Rocheworld' stimulated the thought - the analogy
might not be the same, but the general idea of a fluid (remember air is
a fluid, but not a liquid) transferring from one body to another is what
got me.

Please email me any answers, as I haven't checked sci.space in a few months,
and may not check it again until June.

Thanks.

 -- Tom

--
AD ASTRA PER ARDUA
Tom Nugent    voice:[phone]    e-mail:[e-mail]
"To be average scares the hell out of me." -- Anonymous

------------------------------

Date: 15 Mar 1993 05:48:04 GMT
From: Francis Vaughan <[e-mail]>
Subject: Beyond 1000!
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Phil G. Fraering) writes:

|> I'm just sounding out some disturbing ideas I had, when I realized that
|> the US _is_ making an "investment" in new high technology that the
|> people on TV and CNN and in the administration berate us for not
|> making, and the only coverage on TV of this comes from science
|> shows out of Oz that most people can't get to watch.

Hmmm, I guess that if you call Beyond 2000 a science program you
really must be fed on a poor diet.  I rather liked the
(inadvertent?) mis-titling given to the program by the origonator
of the this thread.  It seems to capture a lot of local feeling
about the quality of the program.  I find Beyond 2000 good mind
numbing stuff when I want to veg in front of the tube, but
painfully difficult to watch othertimes as they blithly report
what has been common knowledge for some years as scientific
breakthrough.  They suffer from the "one hundredths of the width
of a human hair" syndrom all to often, and cronicly seem to miss
the point of many stories.  My favorite must be the reporter that
breathlessly told us of how some research was using a computer
that was "ten times the power of the computers that control the
space shuttle."  Stupid and inexcusable.

The style of the show seeks to sensationalise and often
trivialise much work, and has a habit of also mixing in utter
dross and occasionally features fringe science with no caveat
warning the naive veiwer.

On the other hand they seems to have a sufficent budjet and be
able to get a lot of good people to talk to them that they have
shown a lot of good science over the years.  Often one gets the
feeling that they just don't realise it when they do it.

For high quality I havn't seen better then the Brits, Horizon
and the like are very very good.

                    Francis Vaughan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1993 00:35:48 GMT
From: Joe Sharkey <[e-mail]>
Subject: Cancel wars and academic freedom
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,alt.privacy,sci.space,sci.astro,comp.org.eff.talk

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>If do not think Richard E. Depew's ([e-mail]) threat to censor
>the postings *you* may wish to read by beginning a "canceling war,"
>please write directly to:

BTW:

  If you are in the USA, that's a criminal act.  Naughty boy - apologise.

OK!  I'll bite.

[[  ``anon'' seems to be fed directly from fuug - they say not.  No reply
     to that mail yet, either...

     Dear Mr Anon:  fix your software, at least.  ]]

You want a cancel war, Mr an8758?  I DEMAND access to *your* boss!

joe.  (nobody would speak for me, so I had to!)
--
Joe Sharkey      [e-mail]      ...!uunet!ibmpcug!jshark!joe
150 Hatfield Rd, St Albans, Herts AL1 4JA, UK        Got a real domain name
([phone]           Mail/News Feeds (v32/v32bis): [e-mail]
--
Joe Sharkey      [e-mail]      ...!uunet!ibmpcug!jshark!joe
150 Hatfield Rd, St Albans, Herts AL1 4JA, UK        Got a real domain name
([phone]           Mail/News Feeds (v32/v32bis): [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 15 Mar 1993 03:27 UT
From: Ron Baalke <[e-mail]>
Subject: Magellan Venus Map
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary

                         ==========================
                             Magellan Venus Map
                               March 14, 1993
                         ==========================

The Magellan Venus map in now available in GIF and JPEG formats.  The Venus
map shows the complete altimeter topography coverage from all 3 Magellan
radar mapping cycles (24 months of operation) in Mercator projection.
The un-mapped areas are shown in grey filled with the Pioneer Venus altimeter
map.  The areas mapped by Magellan are color-coded, with red marking the highest
areas such as Maxwell Mons and Maat Mons, and blue marking the lowest areas.
Synthetic "shadowing" has also been added to enhance the visibility of
features.  This image has been greatly reduced in resolution to permit easy
transmission and display.  The full-resolution imagery will be distributed on
a new altimeter/radiometer CD-ROM through the Planetary Data System and the
National Space Science Data Center later in 1993.  The image is available
using anonymous ftp to:

        ftp:      ames.arc.nasa.gov (128.102.18.3)
        user:     anonymous
        cd:       pub/SPACE/GIF
        files:    gtdr.gif

        cd:       pub/SPACE/JPEG
        files:    gtdr.jpg

     ___    _____     ___
    /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|     Ron Baalke         | [e-mail]
    | | | |  __ \ /| | | |     Jet Propulsion Lab |
 ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |__   M/S 525-3684 Telos | It's kind of fun to do
/___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | the impossible.
|_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                     | Walt Disney

------------------------------

Date: 15 Mar 93 07:29:01 GMT
From: Paul Salanitri <[e-mail]>
Subject: mystery satellite?
Newsgroups: sci.space

[e-mail] (jim jaworski) writes:
: [e-mail] (Matt Bartley) writes:
:
: >
: > Last night (7 Mar. UTC) I was visually observing the Hubble Space
: > Telescope.  I tracked it starting around 3:10 UTC and kept it in sight
: > until it eclipsed around 3:15 UTC.
: >
: > While I was tracking it though, around 3:14 UTC I saw another bright
: > satellite enter the field of view of my binoculars.  This was at about
: > 35 degrees elevation and 150 degrees azimuth.  It headed toward the
: > southeast sky and eclipsed about a minute later.
: >
: > My location is 33d 49' 1'' N
: >               117d 48' 11'' W
: >     (Orange, CA - not the location of this news site)
: >
: > Whatever it was, it isn't on any of the databases distributed on
: > archive.afit.af.mil.  This is the 3rd time I've unexpectedly seen
: > satellites when I've been looking for other ones.  Is there any way to
: > determine what they are?  What kind of observation is needed to
: > establish their orbit?
:
: Are you using a satellite tracking program to confirm when HST (Hubble)
: will pass over your location?  There is an excellent program that uses
: Keplarian Data that is updated weekly on rec.radio.amateur.misc if you
: have access to it.  The program is called PC-Track 2.14 and is available
: on the Simtel 2.0 CD-ROM.
:
: Recently while walking to the grocery store, I saw a bright star like
: object in the night sky.  When I was on the way TO the store this
: star-sized light was in the western sky, about 14 deg. elev.  A few hours
: later, about 6 hours, I saw the same thing, only this time it was in the
: eastern side of the sky.  Do you know what this could be?  Is it Hubble?
: It's easy to describe because its the brightest star/satellite out there.
:
: Jim
:
: [e-mail]
: The Inquiring Mind BBS, Winnipeg, Manitoba  204 488-1607

I hate to be a spoil sport but what you saw was VENUS just after sunset
and JUPITER 6 hours later !!!!!!!  Satellites such as hubble move across
the whole sky within about 10 minutes.
--

==========================================================================
 Paul Salanitri                               [e-mail]
  P.O. Box 12702, Elizabeth Street, Brisbane QLD 4002, AUSTRALIA
  Brisbane : City of the vacant lot for the World's Tallest Building
       "It's a joke!"  Roy Nelson & H.G. Slaven in unison.
            DISCLAIMER : THESE ARE MY ONIONS!
==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: 14 Mar 93 21:46:00 GMT
From: Alan Guggenheim <[e-mail]>
Subject: NASA SELECT TV
Newsgroups: sci.space

     I would like my cable operator to carry NASA Select.  Does anyone
know of a good way to convince them to carry it, especially if channels
are limited?  Is there any convincing info?  If that fails, how much
does it cost for equipment to pick up the signal directly from a
satellite?  Where can you purchase this equipment?
                                                     --Alan


------------------------------

Date: 15 Mar 1993 03:48 UT
From: Ron Baalke <[e-mail]>
Subject: Planet X
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Dave Tholen) writes...
>First of all, during his search for Pluto,
>Tombaugh examined a huge amount of the sky.  He maintains that if a tenth
>planet was out there, he would have seen it.  Of course, that would be
>true only if the planet were bright enough to have been picked up on his
>plates, so that does constrain things.

No disrespect to Clyde Tombaugh, but one other possibility is that Planet X
did show up on his plates, but he failed to notice it.
     ___    _____     ___
    /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|     Ron Baalke         | [e-mail]
    | | | |  __ \ /| | | |     Jet Propulsion Lab |
 ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |__   M/S 525-3684 Telos | It's kind of fun to do
/___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | the impossible.
|_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                     | Walt Disney

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 02:38:59 GMT
From: Dave Hayes <[e-mail]>
Subject: The courage of anonymity
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk,sci.space,alt.privacy

[e-mail] (Lucio de Re) writes:
>>>shared libraries, that Clayton Cramer has to say about
>>>gay men, or that Robert Sheaffer has to say about feminism.
>>Who are these people, anyway?
>Why do you need to ask?

I was trying to understand what she was trying to say. Those people
held no reference for me, as I don't pay attention (usually) to
specific names of people.

>>And, of course, that means that they cannot change...in terms
>>of your conception of their viewpoint. This is because you
>>"know that you can pretty much throw out anything" that they say.
>I think I'll have to find a copy of Ted Kaldis (blessed be his name)'s
>collected writings, to justify his residence in innumerable kill files.
>Sure, he can change his leopard's spots, but is that so important?  Or
>are you of the religious view that a repented sinner is more significant
>than a permanently good person?

Why distinguish? Nothing is what it appears to be, and if one should
judge something, it probably should be on it's own merits. If a person
(repented sinner or "permanently good") says a thing, if it is relavent
try it and see if it works.

I don't fully trust even a "good" person. It's got to work, and work for
_me_.

>>You have touched on one of the most telling problems of netters.
>>They encorage people to hold to unworkable ideas by establishing
>>reputations. You lose yours by contradicting yourself or providing
>Not at all,

This has been repeatedly disproven. Just watch news.groups for a while.

>unless you're by nature the type of rebel that insists
>on swimming against the stream and thus can be readily manipulated
>by ostensibly pushing you in the inverse direction...

Most humans fall into that category.

>Why should anybody get so caught?  Ever seen an apology on the net, or
>just a word of thanks for having had an opinion corrected?

Yes. I've seen significantly more flames than apologies. Not that the
apologies aren't a "good thing" in their own right, but I'm merely focusing
on the cases where apologies won't work.

>>>stand behind it.  I'm all for allowing people to continue
>>>to post things like "ALL FAGS GET AIDS AND DIE," but I'd
>>>really like to see a name associated with those posts.
>>But _why_? If this sentiment is something you disagree with (I'm
>>assuming), then why do you care who said it? What could you possibly
>>do with that information that would benefit anybody?

>Nothing to do with _me_ (or Melinda) knowing who it was.  It's just
>that it is far too easy to voice such an opinion when nobody has a
>clue as to who you are.

Why should "who you are" matter, when either your experience or your
observation have told you otherwise? Let the opinion be an opinion.

>In practice, we all exercise good manners
>(as opposed to obeying laws) because we care for our reputation,
>knowing that a bad reputation has social repercussions.

Please speak for yourself. :-) I exercise good manners because it pleases
me to do so and it is part of my internal standards. I could really care
less about my "reputation", which is another word for "external validation",
which is not as important as "internal validation".

It's far more workable to base standards on internal validation. Try it
sometime and see if that works for you.
--
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
[e-mail]       [e-mail]         ...usc!elroy!dxh

Nasrudin walked into a teahouse and declaimed, "The moon is more useful
than the sun."  "Why?", he was asked.  "Because at night we need the
light more."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1993 21:15:19 GMT
From: Joe Sharkey <[e-mail]>
Subject: Threat of mass cancellings was Re: Anonymity is NOT the issue
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,sci.space,alt.privacy

In article <keng.731967549@tosgcla> [e-mail] (Ken Garrido) writes:
>
>Now I'm not a news wizard, but can't you generate a file which *automatically*
>screens the messages which are presented to you ?
...
>Why don't we _just_ _not_ _listen_ to anonymous posts ?

Maybe because some of pay real money out of our own pay check( (sic) for news?

Much better if this stuff didn't exist: who pay good money for something that's
just going in the bit-bucket?

>Ken Garrido     [e-mail]     Martin Marietta Aerospace
                                   See!   ---->^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

joe.
--
Joe Sharkey      [e-mail]      ...!uunet!ibmpcug!jshark!joe
150 Hatfield Rd, St Albans, Herts AL1 4JA, UK        Got a real domain name
([phone]           Mail/News Feeds (v32/v32bis): [e-mail]

------------------------------

End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 315
------------------------------